[nix.17]

I have a piano dated 1911, it is says Steinberg under the lid but I am aware that there are different kinds of Steinberg. It does have what looks like a 'fto' or 'sto' intertwined in a music note above where it says Steinberg. Bought by my Great Grandad from 'Shaw and Bland' Birmingham, as far as I know from new. I am unsure of its exact make so any suggestions - i would be grateful.
_________________
Nic

[PianoGuy]

Unsure of exactly when it happened, but certainly by the 1930s, that particular branch of Steinberg was British. They were latterly made by Bentley, and I guess that the brand name and "St." logo became part of the haul given to Intermusic when they obtained many of the then British Piano Mfg. Co. brand names as part of settlement for bad debts when the BPMC went into receivership in 2003.

Ironically, the name Gehr.Steinberg is owned by Yantai Perzina who were marketed in this country by the aforementioned BPMC. Maybe if they had rationalised their bewildering and complicated model range; dropped the hopelessly outdated Bentley in favour of a rebadged Perzina, and sorted out the build quality of the Welmar and Knight pianos (1970s build quality would have been a vast improvement) they might still exist today.

[nix.17]

Thankyou for reply,
You certainly give me some more leads...
...I know that the piano ended up in my great aunts house, she was a missionary in India and came back due to WWII, the piano was from my great grandads, ie her father, we have a baby grand that it was always paired with, but that is a different make.
...interesting what you say about the company ownership, me nor my mother realsied that.
..Im going to look inside it tmw, (it's not in my house) and see what i can find in there.
_________________
Nic

[nix.17]

I have a serial number for the piano and a name inside,
it says
'Langer' on a wooden bar going across the the piano by the hammers
the serial number is '30919'
Any knowledge and advice?
Nic
_________________
Nic

[kingbee]

This piano was manufactured in Berlin by my grandfather's
company. The logo identifies it positively. He was forced to abandon the factory by the Nazis. My grandparents reached
London in late 1937 or early 1938 where they lived until the
end of the war. They then came to New York City to be
reunited with their daughter; my mother.

nix.17, any photos you could send me would be greatly appreciated.

[Bill Kibby]

I'd love to know more, do you have any information about your grandfather's company?
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

Have a look at the Datemarks page on my own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

[nix.17]

i have some photo's i will upload them next few days
_________________
Nic

[lluiscl]

Hi. I have an Steinberg baby grand with the same logo. According its action (Ad. Lexow) it was made at 1925. If its posible I'd like to know more about this superb brand. I rebuilt the interior of this piano the last year (I am now finishing the cabinet) and I want to say its a little jewel: plenty of full sound yet!!
-how can I post a photo?-

[Bill Kibby]

You can email them to me, or read the "Please read" announcement above this posting.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

Have a look at the Datemarks page on my own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

[lluiscl]

[Rolf Diekmann]

Hello,
a close friend of my grandfather´s worked with the Steinberg company in Berlin and so it happened that in 1935 my grandfather bought a grand piano directly at the factory. The grand had been built in 1935 or 1934 and was on display in the showroom. According to my father the friend indicated that Wilhelm Furtwängler, the famous conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra played this grand when he once visited the factory.
It carries the number 33958. It has a Langer action. Franz Langer was a company specialising in piano actions which existed from 1882 to 1935 when it became insolvent (see Hubert Henke, Encyclopedia of German Suppliers for the Piano Industry, 2002, Bochinsky publishers, pages 141 – 142). The action looks exactly like the one shown on the photographs of Illuiscl. Despite its age our grand was still in good shape and taken from my parent´s home to Stuttgart in 2004 where it was slightly reconditioned by the former piano building factory Mathaes which today only does service work.
As to the story of Wilhelm Furtwängler having played our grand, the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra indeed at least possesed one Steinberg grand as reported by Hubert Henkel in his Encyclopedia of German Piano Makers, published 2000 by Bochinsky, page 626 – 627. Henkel gives the most comprehensive history of the Steinberg factory available so it might be interesting enough if give you my translation of his entry on „Steinberg & Co. Piano factory Berlin, 1908 – 1940:
„The limited company is established by company charter of 16th April 1908, the share capital being 20,000 (Gold)Marks, managing director is the technician Ignatz Loewy, the place of business at East Gubener Straße 42c. On 3d Oct. 1908 the trademarks „Steinberg Pianos“ and on 13th December „Berg-Pianos“ are registered. In June 1911 the company and the factory move to Frankfurter Allee 117, having a good reputation as an active member of the trade. De Wit 1912 indicates Georg Schlesinger and Ignatz Loewy as owners of the company. Since 1919 the company is in Frankfurter Allee 12 and Cadiner Straße 20, it participates in the Leipzig spring exhibition, owners still being Georg Schlesinger and Ignatz Loewy, the company builds its own actions. In Nov. 1929 the insolvent company Reinhold Schröther is acquired together with Fritz Kuhla AG. Since spring of 1932 big concert grands are being built, one of them delivered to the Berlin Philharmony. At the end of 1936 Ignatz Loewy and Georg Schlesinger flee from the National Socialists to England, Karl Nickel is granted full power of attorney (Prokura) to continue the operation. On 8th Jan. 1937 there is a conference of creditors, on 12th Febr. 1937 bankruptcy proceedings over the assets of the company are opened. In Oct. 1937 Paul Bogs is announced the new owner, Gertrud Mohlis gets Prokura in Aug. 1938. Since Febr. 1940 Bernhard May is the new owner and he changes the name of the company to his own name, the power of attorney of Gertrud Möhlis is cancelled. Sales Brochures: July 1909, German, English, French, 12 small pianos; Sept. 1913, German, English, French, Italian, Spanish, 2 grands, 17 small pianos; May 1921, 34 pages, 7 languages, like before and also Portugese and Swedish, 2 baby grands 133 and 157, 12 small pianos, 1 reproduction small piano; Sept. 1928, 16 pages, grands and small pianos; Oct. 1935 brochure for small vertical piano „Favorita“.“
Another book, Jens-Uwe Witter, The Encyclopedia of Pianos, 1st ed. 1998, p. 448 also indicates 1908 as the year when „Steinberg & Co.“ was established. He lists three numbers with the respective production dates: 19,104: 1920; 21,933: 1925; 24,055: 20th March 1930. In the 2d ed. 2000, p. 712 he indicates locations at Tottenham, London and Berlin as if the company was founded in England and moved to Germany the same year. Without further explanation he also refers to entries on „Bently, Rogers & Sons“ and Steinberg & Gehr, Rogers & Son, Bentley“. From 1922 – 1923 Berlin, Grimmaische Straße 26 is given as the location and 1923 a subsidiary in Leipzig is mentioned. Hope this was not too much. Bye!

[Bill Kibby]

Thanks, we haven't even heard of any such source of German information, I'll have to look for that! Do you have an ISBN number for it?
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

Have a look at the Datemarks page on my own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

[Rolf Diekmann]

Hi,
sure, but you can also order Henkel´s books directly from the publisher´s online shop and where you can also find the ISBNs: http://www.bochinsky.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=huber
You might also be interested in the Atlas der Pianonummern (Atlas of piano Numbers) by Jan Großbach with serial numbers from piano makers all over Europe (http://www.bochinsky.de/product_info.php/products_id/208/cPath/29/klavier/atlas-der-pianonummern.html).
Of course, you need to be familiar with the German language. I am not aware of any translations of these books into English.
By the way, your forum is excellent, keep up the good work!
Greetings

[Rolf Diekmann]

I forgot the other book I had mentioned:
Jens-Uwe Witter, Das Klavier-Lexikon: Namen und Fabrikate aus dem Klavier-, Orgel- und Harmoniumbau sowie Handel und Service von 1788 - 2000 / . - 2. Ausg. - Schillingsfürst : Musik-&-Methodik-Verlag Kircheis, 2000. - 967 S. ; 21 cm. - ISBN 3-929501-04-X: DM 148.00
The publisher has no website so you would have to order at your bookshop. I don´t know whether it is still available. Perhaps you might contact the author who seems to have moved to the US: http://www.piano-doctor.com/

[kingbee]

The Henkel book is a wonderful resource. Thank Rolf.
Here is what I can fill in from what my 95 year old aunt remembers.

My grandfather, Georg Schlesinger, bought into a partnership with Ignatz Loewy in 1911. The company logo was designed by a well known ad agency in Belin around that time. One of the best selling pianos was sized to fit into apartments. Maybe the Favorita mentioned above. The partners fled to London at the end of 1936.
They tried to reestablish the company in London but
were forced to abandon the effort as "enemy aliens". I believe that Ignatz Loewy's son Herbert continued in the piano business and was associated with the Rogers company at one point. That is probably how the trademark passed to Rogers.

[kingbee]

This is taken directly from A History of John Hopkinson, Piano Manufacturer on this web site.

In 1963 Sidney Zender Ltd. acquired the trade names, manufacturing rights, all sales and matters of a technical nature of George Rogers and J. & J. Hopkinson. A new company was formed under the name of George Rogers & Sons, Tottenham Ltd., as distinct from the Zender Company.

The co-director and manager of the new company was H. B. Lowry, born in Berlin, the son of the owner of the Steinberg Company. He left Berlin in 1936, worked in the trade in England and joined the army in 1940, becoming one of the first British soldiers to reach Berlin. Rogers became agents for the Steinberg Company.

[Bill Kibby]

Thanks. Obviously we are aware of this, but it's the real, original Steinbergs (there were several) that we want to learn more about.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

Have a look at the Datemarks page on my own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

[Bill Kibby]

Thanks. Obviously we are aware of this, but it's the real, original Steinbergs (there were several) that we want to learn more about.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

Have a look at the Datemarks page on my own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

[Bill Kibby]

Thanks. Obviously we are aware of this, but it's the real, original Steinbergs (there were several) that we want to learn more about.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

Have a look at the Datemarks page on my own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

[Rolf Diekmann]

Hi kingbee,
it is a miracle that your aunt is still with us and can give us some first hand information about the Steinberg company.
My father told me another story he had heard from my grandfather. After our grand had been taken from Berlin to the city of Essen (Ruhr area) in 1955, the firm Schmitz Piano, which still exists today, did the tuning. The then co-owner Mr. Schmitz was happy to see a Steinberg piano again, because he had been distributor of Steinberg pianos in the 30´s. He had heard that when the owner, Mr. Schmitz seems to have indicated that the name was Mr. Steinberg, left Germany he was allowed to take a grand piano with him. The owner hid some cash money in the piano and tried to ship it to England, probably to start a new business over there. German boarder guards were tipped off by an unknown person and seized the money so the owner had lost everything. I don´t know whether this story really happened but great injustice has been done to your family anyway.
We can also learn something about the rise and fall of the company from the information provided by Henkel and Witter. The time between 1930 and 1935 apparently saw the peak of the company´s success. Almost 5,000 pianos left the factory during that time, compared to only about 3,000 in the 10 years before. In the late 20s and early 30s the company also extended its product range from small upright pianos for home use to grands and instruments for professionals which also reflects a higher standard in quality. But in 1936 the creditors almost seem to have waited for your grandfather and his partner to leave Germany to transfer the business to some German owner via bankruptcy proceedings. The introduction of the small Favorita piano in 1935 might indicate that the factory already was in trouble by that time. It is easy to explain why. Businesses with Jewish owners were heavily discriminated against since the Nazis had taken power in 1933 and especially public institutions with a need for professional pianos were not buying from “Jews” any more. We all know how things ended and your grandfather was at least lucky to have left the country when it was still possible.
It would be interesting what your aunt remembers about that time. Perhaps you could also ask her where the Steinberg name came from as no person of that name is mentioned in any of the sources, except the rather unreliable quote from Mr. Schmitz. Could it be that it was just a clever brand name that should sound a bit like “Steinway”? The company was a GmbH (Ltd.) whose name did not have to reflect the name of a real person. Another fact that might support this theory: as reported by Henkel, there were two trademarks “Steinberg pianos” and “Berg-Pianos”. Perhaps the second trademark was registered just in case the Steinway company enforces its trademark rights against the Steinberg name, what apparently did not happen.
Greetings

[Rolf Diekmann]

another question: could it be that Herbert Loewy had changed his name to H. B. Lowry?

[lluiscl]

Thanks, great information!! For me it's obvious that the logo has the initials of "Steinberg", and I was also wondering if they were copying Steinway... in all the ways. Because my baby grand has a very similar sound like them: open, powerful and dynamic. Really it has been for me a great discovery. As I wrote: a little jewel.

[kingbee]

Rolf,

You have some wonderful information on the company. I can confirm the story of the hidden money. By 1936, Jews were not permitted to take money out of the country. The family story is that the factory foreman informed the Nazis of the hidden money.

I have never heard of anyone named Steinberg associated with the company. I believe that the name existed when my grandfather became a partner in 1911. As my aunt was born in 1912, I don't think she has any knowledge of the origin of the name. I will ask her. Your theory that the name was created to sound like Steinway sounds quite plausable.

The Loewy family did change their name to Lowry so it seems that Herbert Loewy and H.B. Lowry are the same
person.

I have some nice photos of a Steinberg grand from 1920 that I will post as soon as I find a site to hotlink from.
Are you the current owner of your family piano?

Cheers

[kingbee]

http://www.freedrive.com/files/erwji9uir54oc/SteinbergPiano/steinbergGrand.jpg
http://www.freedrive.com/files/erwji9uir54oc/SteinbergPiano/Harp.jpg
http://www.freedrive.com/files/erwji9uir54oc/SteinbergPiano/steinbergLogo.jpg
http://www.freedrive.com/files/erwji9uir54oc/SteinbergPiano/steinbergMusicStand.jpg
http://www.freedrive.com/files/erwji9uir54oc/SteinbergPiano/steinbergFootPedals.jpg

[Bill Kibby]

How do you know it was made in 1920?
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

Have a look at the Datemarks page on my own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

[kingbee]

This piano was for sale a couple of years ago from Besbrode Pianos in Leeds. I got the photos from their web site. The piano was described as circa 1920 restored mahogany with French polish and the asking price was ?3500.

[Rolf Diekmann]

Hi again. I have uploaded some photos of our Steinberg grand here, including one photo from my grandfather´s home in Berlin Spandau taken around christmas 1935. My father is the kid playing the piano, the other one is my uncle:
http://aycu01.webshots.com/image/35760/2002064162667950878_rs.jpg
http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/33752/2002022176416997061_rs.jpg
http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/34827/2002029269925526709_rs.jpg
http://aycu08.webshots.com/image/33967/2002085410605258699_rs.jpg
http://aycu07.webshots.com/image/33246/2002064689659881423_rs.jpg
http://aycu34.webshots.com/image/33553/2002034153692113806_rs.jpg
http://aycu29.webshots.com/image/34988/2002018106515106906_rs.jpg
http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/33860/2002023125923321372_rs.jpg
Our grand barely survived the war years in Berlin in the home of a drug addicted doctor who was about to give it away in exchange for drugs. My grandfather was able to stop the deal in the very last minute.
I would also like to address kingbee again. Would you mind sharing with us some photos of your grandfather, his partner, the Steinberg factory and its people, if there are any? I have the idea that this forum could serve as some kind of small virtual "Steinberg Berlin Museum" to commemorate this great company and its people.
Finally, I would like to add the name of my grandfather´s friend at the factory: he was Alfred Grunow. I do not know exactly what he did there but I obviously hope he is not the foreman your family suspects as being the Nazi informer.
Greetings

[Rolf Diekmann]

to answer kingbee´s question: my father is still technically the owner but the grand is in my family´s possession now and played mostly by our kids who are very talented young pianists, unlike me: I am neither young nor talented ''

[Bill Kibby]

May I add my usual plea, if you are using up space on the internet, please label your images so that someone looking for (in this case) Steinberg pianos will find them, otherwise vast amounts of internet resources are wasted.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

Have a look at the Datemarks page on my own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre