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silvermist · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

Hello everyone,

I would like to introduce my children to beautiful and moving (not too heavy) piano music but I have no idea what cds to buy or where to start.

I am a blank page, so to speak, as to classical piano music and musicians/composers, although occasionally hear things in films etc and think 'that was great' but never the wiser as to who composed it etc. I believe if I get some great music, apart from being fantastic to listen to, it will help to let my children hear how expressive the piano is and what they may be able to achieve with perserverance when they start lessons.

Does anyone have any great albums they could suggest I should buy and listen to.

I want to keep my nearly 7 year old inspired whilst I continue desperately try to find a piano for around 500 pounds (that is worth having and near enough to go to see! - I look in the for sale ads on this site and ebay all the time). I couldn't get him off a baby grand piano in a local shop (I couldn't afford it unfortunately) and he has always been fascinated when someone plays the piano and will watch them for as long as they play and he really does seem genuinely interested in music. He started playing the recorder last November and he plays it incessantly, I am not exaggerating. He asks me all the time about his music when he comes across new things ie what different marks are against the notes eg slur lines and staccato dots and I so I feel his enthusiasm for the piano must be kept fresh.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

Celestite · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject:

Hi Silvermist
How brilliant that you not only notice your son's enthusiasm but are keen to develop it - you'd be amazed how many parents I come across who think it is enough to deposit their offspring on me for half an hour a week and they'll just turn into the next Horowitz!
Music, like children themselves, is so diverse that you could very well be exercising a lot of guess work and spending vast amounts in the process to little avail. Of all the odd things to capture my daughter's imagination, as a toddler she used to love me playing Brahm's Gminor rhapsodie and would dance around the room to it for as long as I would play it. She still refers to it as "her Brahms" now she's 9 and a half!
I would suggest you have Radio 3 and Classic FM on around him as much as possible and note the type of music that captures his attention and prompts a reaction, then it would be much easier to suggest some specific pieces. My just turned 2 year old amazed me in the car the other day when I looked in the rear view mirror and saw him head banging for all he was worth to Prokoviev's violin concerto!

silvermist · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

Celestite
Thank you so much for that, it is something I've tried immediately - my children, boy nearly 7 and daughter 3 ate their cereal this morning listening to Radio 3!

I used to learn to play the piano but our cheap piano was so heavy keyed for my little fingers I was always relieved to play my teacher's piano. Sadly a lot of my home encouragement became "you better practise because I'm paying for the lessons"! From this experience I realised that if I want to give my children a real chance at something I must also get excited and keep the interest fresh. Learning is a fun and natural process for children afterall , they are programmed to learn instinctively those things which are important in their family so I just want to encourage this fantastic opportunity! I will also try to relearn the piano at the same time as my children and because they always want to do what I'm doing I probably won't get a look in!

I've set up a music area where I am teaching myself the guitar and saxophone, and I have bongos and xylophone set up for them and they can play my little electric keyboard too. I am hoping to get a little baby grand piano to make it even more fun by making the under side a den, so it includes my daughter (and her dolls and teddys) and make the piano even more versatile fun and good use of space!

I will be checking out for Brahms Gminor rhapsodie and if you have any other specific piano music you might suggest it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again for replying!

dave brum · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject:

Try also Trilogy by Emerson Lake and Palmer, there's some fantastic piano work on there before it crashbangs into full synth. Or indeed anything by Keith Emerson or Rick Wakeman. In 'Going for the One' by Yes (RW's old band), there is proof that guitars, drums, and church organ do (unlikely but true) mix.

Just one or two ideas just in case you get the old chestnut 'classical music's boring' from 'em, you can provide them with some keyboard music without having to turn to Trash FM.

I was into both these bands in my teens and twenties, and now I have classical/jazz on all the time.

silvermist · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

Hi, dave brum

These are also a great suggestions and I will endeavour to get hold of these ELP and YES albums/tracks to listen to.

I have to confess my children don't get much exposure to Trash FM as we tend to only play my cds over and over, which is a limited collection, so my son hums Smoke on the Water a lot!

This is the reason for asking advice here - I do need to expand my knowledge of the musical world especially where the piano is concerned as I have tended towards tracks with good guitar solos!

Thank you for replying.

Gill the Piano · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject:

There are loads of cheapo 'Piano Greatest Hits' type CDs on Amazon or in the charity shops. Cheap way to start, and as Celestite says, see what nibbles of interest you get.
Jacques Loussier's interpretation of Bach for piano is catchy (piano playing 'jazzed up' but intrinsically sound Bach, with double bass & drum support).
Dudley Moore playing 'And The Same To You' is hysterical, especially if you can get a video recording of it (You Tube, perhaps?) and ditto Victor Borge. There was a You Tube thread on the 'Pianos' bit of the forum entitled 'Rachmaninov Had Big Hands' which made me howl. Humour is an excellent antidote to the sometimes prissy and po-faced attitude of some people who should be encouraging sprogs, not alienating them.
If you can't find your ideal piano, then get an old piano from anywhere to let them bash on until they're ready for proper lessons; they won't be so inclined to bash the 'real' one when it gets there, and you won't be dancing around on tenterhooks telling them to wash their hands/not to hit it/be careful etc. Don't be seduced by the baby grand thing; it's just an image thing and unless you're extremely lucky you'll be paying way over the odds for a piano that sounds the same as/worse than a small upright, but takes up twice the floorspace.

Gill the Piano · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject:

You Tube 'Dudley Moore Beethoven Sonata Parody'

Don't know how to do link things, but that's how I found it!

Celestite · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject:

If they like Deep Purple, how about Led Zeppelin? I don't know if it's still available but I have the piano score for Physical Graffiti and Stairway to Heaven works brilliantly on piano.
You just HAVE to go to You tube and see Rachmaninov had big hands. As Gill says, it is hysterical - I cried laughing at it and still chuckle just at the thought of it!

dave brum · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject:

See what you mean, the 'Fantasia on Colonel Bogey' certainly made me giggle, is he really the same bloke who does Derek and Clive?

Gill the Piano · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject:

Certainly was; Fellow of the Royal College of Organists...amazing bloke. His piano jazz is noice to listen to; try Dudley Moore Live at the Wavendon Festival.
Excellent bloke; great loss.

markymark · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject:

You could also have a look at Jordan Rudess who is also very good. He's very big on improvisation! Check out his website for more info.

Celestite · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject:

Another thought for you is the old children's classic, Saint Saens Carnival of the Animals which uses the piano in it's orchestral role to great effect. You might also like to try something I used to do a lot with littlies in my music appreciation classes (posh sounding name for just getting them exposed to a broader range of music than they were at home) and that's to sit them down and play something while they shut their eyes, then get them to draw or paint whatever it makes them think of. Works equally well if they create their masterpieces with their eyes open while they're listening but closing their eyes then painting improves concentration and memory skills.
Another one which is popular with kids but not piano is The March of the Montagues and Capulets from Prokoviev's Romeo and Juliet. Really, anything with a strong beat and dramatic effect works.
Debussy's 1st Arabesque goes down well with my two, very dreamy, atmospheric stuff. Oddly enough, my two year old also likes the Schubert Impromptus, especially the one in Gflat.

silvermist · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

Hello everyone! Very Happy

My whole family loved Rachmaninov Had Big Hands and my son was positively hooting! I have today been introduced to You Tube and will be spending a bit of time exploring it further.

So many wonderful ideas and suggestions I am delighted - I will definitely try the painting to music this week though knowing my 3yr old only two well I think I will suggest eyes closed another time in the summer when we can do that outside!

I am off to the Library this week with a list of your suggestions to see if I can get hold of some of your suggestions and will keep you posted. I've never heard of Jordan Rudess or of the 1st Arabesque by Debussy, or Schubert's Impromptus and Saint Saens Carnival of the Animals sounds just up my daughter's street - she loves animals!

As for the piano, I know I can't afford to buy a decent instrument yet and I take the point about the baby grand - I haven't ruled out uprights but I don't like modern looking pianos and some of the old uprights can be a minefield of problems too and I feel a little out of my depths. I just can't get the looks out of my head of their faces as my children immediately sat at a baby grand in a secondhand shop and I could not tear my son away - I just hoped I could get an OK one with the promise that in another life I might be able to get a decent one when they get to higher grades.

I am still hoping that something will turn up and glad of all your help and advice to lay the foundations in as best and appealing way as possible.

It is unlikely that I would have easily come across any of these suggestions, if at all, without you introducing me to them.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Celestite · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject:

Glad to be of assistance but having read your latest posting I did have a good chuckle to myself- I meant they do the painting with their eyes open after they've listened to the music! I now have a wonderful mental image of what my music room would have looked like if I'd let half a dozen under 7s loose in it with shut eyes and paint brushes! Thank YOU for brightening up a very cold and frosty evening here! Laughing

Good luck in your mission.

silvermist · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

Trust me to get the wrong end of the (eyes closed whilst) painting stick!(no apologies for the pun) Laughing

This one is priceless and I too have taken several minutes to recompose myself, I haven't laughed so much in ages.

But you know, now I just can't help looking forward to the summer because it actually does sound like a lot of fun - for outside!

I will be retelling this tale for years to come! You are a gem Celestite.

Celestite · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject:

It's still making me chuckle now! I am assuming you know what Celestite is, and that was an intentional pun?

dave brum · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:56 am Post subject:

Hi silvermist

Have you tried 'Sparkys Magic Piano' out on them? The soundtrack is all classical piano pieces coupled witha pianocentric storyline? We love watching it, and we're hardly kids.

Celestite · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:36 am Post subject:

Dave, you're an inspiration! That one never occurred to me and my daughter loves it. Not sure how easy it is to get now but my copy came from either Amazon or Ebay, can't remeber which.

dave brum · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:54 am Post subject:

We got our copy for £8 a few months back we ordered it from, well without advertising, the shop formerly known as Virgin Megastore - and it got delivered next day.

Hope you're having a whale of a time with Bach, dear Celestite Smile

silvermist · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

Yes I did know that you, Celestite, are a beautiful crystal which encourages creativity and inner peace and it is believed that one of your strengths is in stabilising the voice or throat 'Chakra'

dave brum - you came up with an exciting suggestion - but, (here's me getting it wrong again as usual)... I went to You Tube first and was a little lost for words with their version of Sparky's Magic Piano Embarassed

(gladly my children didn't see it, although I am sure it would have gone over their heads!).

Realising this was probably not the version you had meant, I checked on Amazon and we ordered a copy from today! I can't wait for it to arrive.

Fantastic suggestion dave - thanks!

Celestite · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject:

Impressed!!
I'm now off to You Tube to find your version of Sparky - I'm intrigued!

dave brum · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject:

See what you mean, Silvermist. no that wasn't the version I meant but I was off my chair laughing at 'that' version, which is what I need right now.

How's the piano hunting going?

silvermist · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

Hi Dave and Celestite

Piano hunting is limited to waiting for something local to me to turn up on this site for sale or ebay at the moment - I placed a wanted ad here but I expect most people will laugh at my budget! I just want to make sure I can afford the delivery after purchase. Please don't get me wrong, I am not penniless just a housewife on a budget - I could wait and save more but I just want to grab my son's interest now whilst it is ripe.

There is a local second hand piano shop but everything too modern, or suitable for grade 1-2 only - the rest are completely out of my price range and I saw nothing that I would enjoy looking at in my house. I saw a German upright for around 600 pounds which they say would stretch to grade 7-8 but very dark wood and quite imposing. The baby grand I liked was suitable up to grade 5-6 and was their lowest price - a Waldberg;unfortunately it was 300 pounds more than I can pay. My children liked it and of course they particularly liked the shiny black gloss grand in the window! They do have a trade in option but I hate getting rid of things, especially musical instruments - they sort of become part of the family to me so it is difficult!

dave brum · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject:

Hello again Silvermist. Hope you're having a good day!!

Have yourself a gawpipoos at the A***s catalogue page 1721

One of those digital models might suffice just to grab and nurture your childrens interest in pianos, won't take up too much valuable space, and won't break the bank either!

Gill the Piano · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Don't get a plastic pig; it bears little or no resemblance to the real thing and when they go on a real piano, it will be confusing for them. And pleasepleaseplease DON'T be seduced by the look of a piano. I can almost categorically say that a baby grand will be far inferior to an upright for the same money. Never choose a piano because of the box it's in; a tatty piano can be refinished, whereas a knackered instrument in a pretty box remains worthless.
Must go...I'm off to check up on Sparky...! Smile

Celestite · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject:

Please, please don't buy anything off ebay (or anywhere else for that matter) unless it is close enough for you to be able to go an play it first. There are some truly dreadful heaps out there, and no matter how much effort you put into your children's musical development it will ulitmately be wasted if they don't have something which rewards their efforts with a decent sound. My early attempts at learning the violin were thwarted by a seriously naff teacher who just stared out the window picking his nose or biting his nails while I was playing and a really dire violin which made a strangled cat sound like Pavarotti. It wasn't until I got a decent (though not professional level) violin in my early adulthood that I started to play again and enjoy it. I appreciate you want something aesthetically pleasing but the sound and action really do have to be your first priority if you want your children to maintain their enthusiasm. The piano I have now is the first instrument I have EVER had which looks as pretty as it sounds, but that is simply my good fortune. It was bought for the sound and feel of it. The fact it is in a rosewood case is just the icing on the cake.

markymark · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:52 pm Post subject:

If you're thinking of going digital, have a look at this link:

http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-forums/viewtopic.php?t=4913

Someone asked the question about which was better: acoustic or digital. In short, the purpose of the instrument is the most important point. Basically, a cheapo, crappy, secondhand heap will be an even bigger waste of money than a digital piano for learning purposes.

For the purpose of teaching/learning piano, the downside is that, although some space may be saved by going digital, you'll need something that has a good quality hammer action keyboard and a high quality piano sound sample. These are so important for children, teens, adults, pensioners.... students basically, learning to play the piano when they exceed Grade 4 standard.

By this stage, examiners start to look for engagement with the musical material and a large part of that comes from engagement with the instrument. Digital pianos vary here from no possible engagement to some engagement with the player; things like feeling the vibration of the strings and hammer impact are largely lost on many digitals and completely lost on most of them, although hammer action is still good enough for learning. Of course, any vibrations coming from a digital piano usually comes from the speakers!! Wink

Don't get me wrong! The digital piano does have a place in modern society (I mean, "plastic pigs", Gill??) but certainly has serious limitations if it is the only instrument available for people learning at an intermediate or advanced level of piano playing.

Celestite · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject:

For what it's worth, I bought a Roland F90 to practice on when the kids are asleep, having played every digital I could get my hands on. For me, it was the closest to an accoustic piano I could find in terms of touch, response and sound, although it still has something intangible missing in it. I put that down to the fact I've been playing "real" pianos for over 40 years. It will never give the same satisfaction or response of my Bechstein but it is perfectly adequate as a work tool for me and, imho, infinitely more rewarding to play than any of the pianos I have played at around the £500 mark (sorry, Silvermist). Of course, it just doesn't hack it as a piece of furniture, but I have it tucked away out of sight, purely for my own benefit when it's that or nothing.

markymark · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:12 pm Post subject:

This is good advice Silvermist.

However, better (and consequently more expensive) digitals do look and feel better, but by the time you dole out £1500, you could have invested in a good quality secondhand upright anyway!

I liked that advice, Celestite - I think I could get on quite well with you. Although I think Gill may have to go back on the hitlist after that malicious attack on digital pianos Smile

Celestite · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject:

Ah, Markymark, those who know me are always seriously worried when they think they are on the same wavelength as me - it casts aspersions on their sanity (never a bad thing in my book - this sensibility stuff is something I try to use in moderation!)

markymark · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject:

I teach Year 2. I just started Easter holidays and am far from recharged. At this point, I think I'm probably closer to your wavelength than you think!! LOL!

Celestite · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject:

That would indeed explain a lot, dear boy! For my sins I used to teach years 7 to 11 and that was enough for me to leap off after Dagenham (several stops... Barking...etc). Now I just teach privately and live with a 2 and a 9 year old.(And dear old hubby, of course, so that makes three kids, aargh!) Mind you the peripatetic job prior to arrival of sprog 2 saw me teaching in the loo at one point, I kid you not, so I suppose I do have certain mitigating circumstances in my favour. Rolling Eyes

markymark · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject:

Well I suppose, taking afternoons into consideration, I also take Years 3, 4, 5 and 6 for music. Question is then, who is barmier: the primary school teacher or the secondary school teacher? Surprised

Perhaps we should start a poll on that one!

silvermist · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 13

Hello, everyone!

Thank you all for your valued opinions, suggestions and concern, I feel I've made some wonderful new friends.

I had thought about buying a digital piano and went to the local music shop to try them out. I decided that really I would need to spend at least 800 pounds and over for a decent one, I preferred the sound of the Rolands I have to say, but excluded this idea for several reasons. Most importantly, I prefer traditional pianos, the look and feel etc but also, I know that my children cannot stop pressing buttons and would find them a distraction. Making, blending and changing sounds is making music and doing this on a piano is limited to the notes and the pedals, on a digital piano it can be done with buttons too! I have a Roland Juno 1 - one of the first midi instruments that came out in the 80's and (I've had it that long!)they mainly press buttons rather that experiment with notes.

There is something about sitting at a traditional piano that makes you have to tinkle about, if you know what I mean, and this is what I want to exploit with my children!

Having said all that, I have taken on board all you are saying and have now decided to look more seriously at the uprights.

Perhaps 500 pounds might get me a good instrument if I go privately and get it checked out with a professional piano tuner first. I could possibly go up another 200 (I've got my birthday coming up!). Few and far between are good ones and I think I will get more for my money buying privately.

dave brum · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:29 am Post subject:

Hi misty

How are ya?

It's fair to say there are just as many arguments for digital pianos (actually, my pig is wooden) than against. As a digital owner, it's fair to say that you cannot beat a traditional piano in your home, oh the world of piano politics.

Probably be best to keep an open mind as you continie your search. Have a look at as many pianos as you possibly can. When that moment arrives, your instincts will tell you 'YES I've found my piano' and you will purchase it. Whatever type of piano it is. And make sure you take the kids along to get their opinion, after all, they're the ones who are going to be playing it. Also, get yourself a 'Piano Fund' going right now, as I did.

If I didn't live in a tin of sardines. I'd consider getting an acoustic with no volume control!

Best of Luck, misty and co Smile

Gill the Piano · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject:

I would just like to say that I actually have a very soft spot for plastic pianos.

It's a bog in the middle of Ireland... Twisted Evil