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saartjevw · Member Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 2 Location: UK

Hi, We have just recently inherited a John Spencer & Co. piano. I have noticed that you have shed some light on the age of a piano from the same maker. Any chance you could give us a rough estimate of when ours was built? The piano number is 92142.
_________________
Thanks,

Saartjevw

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject: Spencer

It's the early ones pre-1909 which are more difficult, the published numbers are wrong. Yours should be 1938.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

saartjevw · Member Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 2 Location: UK

Hi, I had been given the incorrect number. The correct number is: 62142. Any chnace you could advise on this number?

Sorry and thanks
_________________
Thanks,

Saartjevw

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject: Spencer

That suggests 1915.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

storm1606 · Member Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 2 Location: England

Hi,

I noticed that you have been kind enough to help date some of the John Spencer pianos posted here previously and I wondered if you might do the same for me?
Ours has a serial number of 46588.
Thank you in advance

Neil

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:35 pm Post subject: Spencer

Should be around 1906.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

storm1606 · Member Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 2 Location: England

Thanks Bill
Smile

Emma78 · Member Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Posts: 2 Location: UK

Hi

My husband has a John Spencer & Co Piano that he has had for many years. His father had bought it in about 1966 at which time he was told it was about seventy years old. In about 1968 it was 'modernised' by removing the candlestick holders and scroll work. It was then completely veneered.

We were hoping to find out the date of the piano and any other information eg model number etc. Is there any way we can see what it originally looked like?

The number on the piano is 28726 with John Spencer & Co printed above it. We have found this serial number three times throughout the piano.

Thanks for any information you can provide.

Regards
Emma.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject: Spencer

The number suggests 1897. If you have logged in, you can contact me at the link below, and I may have photos of similar ones.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

Emma78 · Member Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Posts: 2 Location: UK

Thanks for your help!

Emma.

Trimitaka · Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: John Spencer & Co

Hi there, I have also received a piano from a relative and was also looking for some help on its age or any info. After opening it I found a stamp in the wood saying John Spencer & Co and under that was 17073, this must be the serial number. Any help would be great.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:15 am Post subject: Spencer

I estimate that it was made around 1891. See
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/datemarks-in-pianos.html
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

James_Hall · Member Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 2

Bill,
I have a John Spencer & Co panio with the serial number: 46030. It's an upright overstrung one.

Please would you be able to provide an aproximate year?
thank you very much,
James Hall

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: Spencer

About 1906. Does the transfer mention the Princess of Wales?
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

James_Hall · Member Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 2

it says "By special appointment to the princess of Wales" and has awards from 1888 and 1890 mentioned.
Thanks

lilstevey · Member Joined: 31 Oct 2006 Posts: 2 Location: England

Hi, I recently aquired a John Spencer upright piano from a couple who were moving and no longer had a need for it. They had been messed around by a few people and the piano was destined for breaking, and the tip when I stumbled across it. I cannot stand seeing such instruments being discarded and whilst I realise it will not be cost effective, I am hoping to repair it, with the view to moving onto a full restoration, primarily using the excellent Reblitz book as a reference. My partner wishes to develop her piano skills, and is supportive of this new hobby. They said it was about 100 years old, and I have noticed that you have dated others pianos in the past. I was wondering if you could do similar for myself. The serial number is '71532'. If anyone could provide pointers to pictures or information about John Spencer pianos of a similar age it would be much appreciated - in particular the woods used for the veneer ( the is some slight damage ) and the sconces ( candle holders ), which have been removed, and I now seek to replace.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: Spencer

The published numbers should be about right for this, suggesting 1921. Get a tuner to check the wrestpins before you spend money. I am no expert on wood types, but surely there is some veneer surviving on the piano? As for sconces, I can quote for printing a booklet which gives many examples of sconce designs, but there is no way of knowing exactly which type was used on a given model, they varied. It is more or less impossible to replace with the right type, and you have to consider it good luck if you find a pair at all. Try Ebay, but bear in mind that not everyone knows them as "sconces". See also the DATEMARKS and BOOKLETS items at pianogen.org
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

Sam Stevenson · Member Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 4

I'm in Fremantle, Western Australia. Today I was given a fantastic gift by my partner - a John Spencer & Co upright. Was wondering if you would be able to give me a rough idea as to its age - the number on the inside is 72399. Anything else you can tell me about it would also be appreciated (model name or anything)- it has two gorgeous candle holders on it - I can email photos if that is helpful - am very keen to learn about its history. Also, some of the (ivory) keys are quite dirty and I was wondering if you could advise the best way to clean them. Many thanks.

lilstevey · Member Joined: 31 Oct 2006 Posts: 2 Location: England

Thank you for your reply and advice - it is very much appreciatted, and I will be acting on your guidence with regard to the wrestpins - Whilst the piano I have is a wonderfull aid to understanding more about the instrument and its mechanics, and I am happy to invest the time doing such, I would not like to pour money down the drain, or worse raise my partners hopes unecessarily with what can be achieved with it.

I have been searching on ebay for a variety of sconces ( or "candle holders" ) - at present nicer
varients seem to be going for between 30 to 40 pounds - I think therefore, that given the availability of examples such as this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200041952367&rd=1&rd=1

Then my continued study of junk shops and charity shops may just be the best course of action.

Sam Stevenson · Member Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 4

I'm in Fremantle, Western Australia. Today I was given a fantastic gift by my partner - a John Spencer & Co upright. Was wondering if you would be able to give me a rough idea as to its age - the number on the inside is 72399. Anything else you can tell me about it would also be appreciated (model name or anything)- it has two gorgeous candle holders on it - I can email photos if that is helpful - am very keen to learn about its history. Also, some of the (ivory) keys are quite dirty and I was wondering if you could advise the best way to clean them. Many thanks.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: Cleaning piano keys

I wonder what it is about Spencer pianos that makes so many people look them up on the net! The number suggests 1921, and there is often a model number or letter right next to the serial number. An 1866 book on London Society includes two interesting pieces of advice on cleaning pianoforte keys: One is to use warm water, the other is to "call in a practical man"! Too much water will wreck the piano, I suggest you call in a practical man, me for instance! Milk is often recommended for cleaning keys, and it is even suggested that the calcium in it does something useful, but really, it is no better than a slightly damp cloth on synthetic keys, and if milk is used on galalith or ivory, which are porous, it will soak into the pores and cause discolouration as it goes sour and mouldy. This effect is often used to artificially age garden statues! Something mildly abrasive (like Cif cream) will often do a good job of removing dirt, but it may also remove the shine, and I prefer to use Solvol Autosol, a thick cream in a tube, like toothpaste, used in the motor trade for cleaning chrome, plastic, etc..
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

Sam Stevenson · Member Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 4

Many thanks - the Solvol Autosol did the trick brilliantly; the keys look brand new.

Any hints for the ebony keys? I did try a good quality dark wood polish, making sure not to get on the ivory keys, but not sure if this is the best thing.

Cheers,
Sam

Bill Kibby · Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: Ebony & ivory

A lot depends on whether they are real ebony, and whether there is any paint or other finish on them. Experiment with the solvol on a small area, or try three-in-one oil, or (dare I mention) WD40.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

Linc Daddy · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject:

Hi there, my name is Marvin Hoenselaar and I live in The Netherlands. I was lucky recently to be able to buy an upright John Spencer & Co. from friends for the crazy amount of €1.- It has the "By special appointment to H.R.H. The Princess Of Wales" script on it with the medals awarded in Melbourne 1888 and Edinburgh 1890. It also has a nice wood inlay on the front board. According to the numbers I can find in this topic, mine should have been made somewhere between 1909 and 1915. But ofcourse I'm quite interested in the exact year, the number is 55366. Below are some fuzzy pictures of the piano as a whole and some clear pictures of the disassembled state it is currently in in order to be able to lift it up the stairs.

Hopefully I'll have the piano upstairs today and fully reassembled (disassembly was actually remarkably easy).

Thank you very much for your help. It's also nice to see there are many others with such an interest in these piano's, would love to see pics of more of these...

Bill Kibby · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: Spencer

The number suggests 1912.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

Linc Daddy · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject:

Thank you very much Bill. Very Happy

steel v · Member Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2

Hi, This is my first time on this site. I live in New Zealand and have just recently bought an old house in the town of Kawerau. The house was owned by an old hermit and when I took over the property, I inherited a lot of old junk. In the garage tucked away in a corner was this piano. I no nothing about pianos. I was curious (after watching the British 'Antique Road Show') so I decided to look it up on the net, last night. This is how I found out about this site. This old piano has the same 'gold transfer' with the inscription 'By special appiontment to HRH the princess of wales' as shown in the photo by 'Linc Daddy'. It has John Spencer & Co. on the front. After reading some of the posts, I will now find out the serial number, how many keys it has and take some photos of it.

Carol

killbill · New Member Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 1 Location: TX

Hi there,

my piano reads,

"John Spencer and Co. London

John G. Murdoch and Co. LTD

53 George St. Edinburgh Scotland

By Special Appointment to H.R.H the Princess of Wales"

Any clues on an approximate year, value, and where I might locate the serial number on the piano?
A while back I opened the bottom cabinet and found two sacks of flour from Scotland, probably used to absorb moisture?? It plays however the sustain pedal is stuck on, probably from the move. It made it a decent way from home since it's now in Texas.

Thanks for your help!

--Bill

Linc Daddy · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:07 am Post subject:

Hello Bill, most likely you will find the number on the top right corner area if you open up the top front like in this picture.

That number is needed to define the year of manufacture.

Kindest regards, Marvin.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: Spencer

It's a fairly good rule that serial numbers can often be seen just by opening the top. Valuation is impossible with inspection, but old Spencers are common in the UK, and many have little value.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

glitterdustgirl · Member Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 2

Hi
We have just bought a Spencer piano and the number inside the top says 15537. Can you please advise on the date? We're really interested!

Thanks

Bill Kibby · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: Spencer

The number suggests 1890.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

glitterdustgirl · Member Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 2

Thank you!

Also, some of the keys seem to be sticking and we are not sure if the pedals are working properly. We have never owned a piano before, and it is a surprise present for my mum, and so we will get it tuned after Christmas. Can these problems be fixed by a piano tuner?

Bill Kibby · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: Spencer

Without seeing it, I can't tell you how bad it is, or what's causing it. Above all, I cannot test the tuning pins from here to see if it is capable of being tuned at all... unless you are in East Anglia?
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

caro58 · New Member Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 1

Dear Bill

I noticed you are one of those rare beings that seems to have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to piano's.

I live in Auckland, NZ and have a John Spencer & Co, possibly oak upright piano. I would suspect that it is fairly old and was wondering if I provide some serial nos, if you would be kind enough to provide an approximate date of manufacture.

Sadly, it has been recently attacked by bora, and so am trying to decide whether or not to spend money on firstly fumigating it professionally and resorting it to its former glory. Here in NZ, this will cost several thousand dollars and although I dearly love this piano, and learnt to play on it some 35 yrs ago, I am weighing up the options.

I tried to attach some photo's for you, as this may help to identify the age, but cannot seem to do so.

There is an engraved number #13301 on the left of the internal panel which also states "John Spencer & Co, London".

Additionally there is a number # 2 or 3(?)359 on the wooden bar above the hammers which states "J Brooks Limited".

Do you have any idea who "J Brooks Ltd" may be?

I would appreciate any assistance you could provide.

Kind regards
Caro Brooking

pete123 · New Member Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 1

Hi,

I have noticed that you have been very helpful in dating John Spencer Piano's and wondered what date mine would fall in with the serial number of 28575??

Thanks for your help!
Pete

Bill Kibby · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: Spencer

The number suggests 1897.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.