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celticfisher · New Member Joined: 25 Dec 2003 Posts: 1

Hello, I have just purchased a Shenstone & Co. Ltd. upright mahogany piano. I have a historian for a partner and would appreciate any information you may have or can direct me to, about the company and the piano. and if you could suggest where to look for the serial number, that would be great. Thank you! Very Happy

Barrie Heaton · Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:47 am Post subject:

Shenstone & Co. Ltd. Is listed in Pierce but no serial numbers not listed in the list of London makers up to 1851 and not listed in Clinkscale You may find out the date by the action numbers if any or some times the keys are dated by the action finisher,

Or you could send Bill some photos of the inside and out and he will date it

Barrie,
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Barrie Heaton
Web Master UK Piano Page

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:05 pm Post subject: Shenstone

Shenstones, established in 1870, were unable to help me with any piano information when I spoke to them in the 1970s. By then, they were just a television shop in Leytonstone, and seemed unaware of the existence of any archive information, although some is listed in the National Register of Archives. I probably have more than anyone else on Shenstone, but it ain't much! Check out the Datemarks link at pianogen.org
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

Issy · New Member Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 1

A friend gave us her Shenstone piano yesterday (it has the name John Shenstone & Sons, London marked on the lid.) I notice previous postings from Celia that she was trying to find out more about its history as I also know nothing about it and would love to know more etc. Any information gratefully receieved!

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject: Shenstone

Mainly, we have to find clues inside the piano. Click on this link, and have a read...
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/datemarks-in-pianos.html

then look at the Reports page there.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

rstross · Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: John Shenstone & Co. Piano

Thanks you all for this thread... Sorry for my long post...

This is absolutely fantastic! I have a John Shenstone & Co. Piano from London too! It was my mother's piano. We brought it with us when we moved to America (from England). I've NEVER been able to find any information about this manufacturer. I've been looking for years. Mine has a 65-note player piano mechanism in it (not working - but complete). In it's day, I think it must have been quite a fine piano. It used to have a dark rich purple-red finish - which years of UV damage has reduced to a sullen orange-beige. It has real ebony sharps and all of her ivory keys are intact with very minor chipping on the front of two or three keys.

Sadly, even though the case and keys looks fine, the piano's seen better days. After reading a couple of books I've discovered that I've got some serious problems. If the piano was a Steinway or such people would not hesitate to restore such a piano. But, since she's probably one of many pianos "cranked" out in the early twentieth century, with an unknown heritage, there's not much I can know about her. I do know that paying to have someone else restore her (just the piano part) would run somewhere around $5000. Restoring the player part would also be an additional $5000. Needless to say, you can buy a very nice working piano for less than $5000. However, I'm refusing to give up on her, and for now, I've moved my piano to a friend's wood shop - in the hopes of perhaps doing a restoration on her myself one day. (I know, I'm absolutely insane). The shop is climate controlled so I think she'll be alright for now.

From the case design (very simple), I'm guessing that the piano dates from 1900-1915. I thought I saw the number 1906 somewhere on the piano but, now I can't find it! I did find a date, penciled-in on the harp - 1/3/25 or something like that. (I've heard that piano tuners would pencil dates in after tuning a piano.) So I know it has to be older than 1925 - plus the 88 note player mechanism was already out by then. I used to call her my old pub piano because she has two candle stick holders that go on either side which in my overly romanticized childhood, would have candles flickering away as someone rattled off an old music hall favorite at the local pub!

I did have one American guy find something once. He opened up one of his piano reference books and found a one line entry - John Shenstone & Co. That was it! One line in the index and nothing else - like, yup, they existed once!

If anyone finds out any information I would be really appreciative. I've taken the player mechanism out before and still can't find any dates or serial numbers.

Thanks,

Robert Stross
Madison, WI.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: Shenstone

Have a look at the information above, and especially the Datemarks link on pianogen.org
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

rstross · Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: Thanks

Yes, I have a few more ideas now of where to look!
Thanks.

Robert

Antz · Regular Poster Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Posts: 10 Location: NZ

Hi there.

I have looked through the archives here, had a look at the pianogen website, and searched broadly on the Internet, but found little re Shenstone pianos. Bill's comment re the TV store might explain why!

About 20 years ago I bought an old, straight strung John Shenstone & Sons piano for the princely sum of $300 NZD. It's served us very well for those two decades, travelled the length of NZ with us, moved house with us 4 times and both my children have learnt to play on it. However, it seems to be finally giving up the ghost on us. We had it tuned before Xmas, but its quickly gone out of tune again, and we now have several notes that "twang" rather unpleasantly when played. I suspect the pinblock and/or soundboard have problems ... ? And that it wont be worth fixing (though the bass does still sound rather good!)

The serial no. is 15432 I think - at least that's what is stamped into the sound board - visible through the strings. The frame also has JS403 embossed. For photos see here:

http://www.realworlddreamer.com-a.googlepages.com/pianopages

I'm assuming this is 19th century rather than 20th, but was wondering if anyone could narrow it down further, based on the serial number and/or other information in the photos? Any help much appreciated.

Regards,
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Anthony Cooke

Bill Kibby · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: Shenstone

No dates of their serial numbers are published, but Shenstone piano #14,700 has KEMBLE written on the keys. The action is made by Malcolm, and its number 29,555 suggests a date around 1922, which corresponds to the date of the serial number if the piano was made by Kemble. Yours must be around the mid-twenties. I presume from what you say that you have looked at my Datemarks page? There are often labels under the bottom keys of these pianos, but you have obviously stripped it down far enough to have found these. Kembles also fitted a dated paper label before they applied the cloth to the back of the instrument. There is no picture of the WHOLE piano to help me, it is strange that so many people miss the obvious, but how welcome it is to see proper logical labelling of photos!
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

Antz · Regular Poster Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Posts: 10 Location: NZ

Thanks Bill. I apreciate the promptness of your response. Apologies for missing the obvious!

Amends are hereby made: 5 photos of the piano as a whole - 3 from the front, and 2 from the back added to the same site (web link below).

Re. your comment about the datemarks. I had noticed a worn paper label under the left most keys, when I had it in pieces, but it was indecipherable. Or so I thought at the time. I went back and had another look at it today. And I think I might be going to miss out on the knowing the date of the piano by 2mm!

I've included a higher resolution photo of this size/date label, with the other five additional photos, all viewable at:

http://www.realworlddreamer.com-a.googlepages.com/pianopages

Re. the remnants of the date and size stamp. It clearly has the two words "Date" and "Size" printed on the left hand size, with the obvious intention that the details would be filled in by hand. Unfortunately, the Date entry has been worn away over the years.

Next to the "Size" heading it appears to say something like:

"JB ?eter esq"
OR
"JB ?eter escr"

Might it be "Peter"? Or "Exeter"?
Might it be "esq." for esquire, or "escr" for escrow?

The above is written in ink, and is then followed by the numberal "14" written in lead pencil.

In fact the numeral 14 is written twice - once on the woodwork itself below this label, and once on the RHS of the label.

There is next to nothing visible from the handwritten entry for the "Date". At most there might be the tail (the bottom loop) of either a 3 or a 5 partially visible, but I may be imagining even that!

Any sense you can make of this would be much appreciated. I am surprised that you date the piano as late as the mid 1920s. I had assumed because it was straight strung it would be older. When did piano manufacturers stop making straight strung pianos? They have haven't they?!

Maybe I'll have to tackle your other suggestion: taking the cloth of the back, and having a look in there - but on mine it's actually fine wire mesh, and appears to be fairly permanently affixed. Will require screwdriver, hammer & pinch bar to tackle that task! So I might leave that until after I've heard any further elucidation you might be able to offer based on the above info.

Really appreciate any info you can offer.
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Anthony Cooke

Bill Kibby · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: Shenstone

The label is typical, what a shame it is illegible. Some London firms were still producing straight-strung overdamper uprights in 1956! Lindners also re-introduced straight-stringing in the seventies. I can't see anything that would pin the date down any more accurately, unless the action has any useful markings: Shenstone sometimes used actions made by John Malcolm, which had a paper label on the back of the hammer rail, with a number which I should be able to date. This would be around 64000 in 1925. I think you would see the other label through the mesh, it would be in the centre at the top, but in view of the fact that the mesh is not original, they probably cleaned it off when they removed the backcloth.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

Antz · Regular Poster Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Posts: 10 Location: NZ

OK, thanks Bill.

No, nothing visible on, in or around the hammer rail, or any part of the action that I can see. And no label in the upper centre on the back of the sound board.

Oh well. Mid 1920s will have to do.

Thank you Very Happy

for your help. Bed time in my part of the world.

Cheers,
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Anthony Cooke