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ben_abbots · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: Missing 9ft Challen!

A gorgeous 9ft concert grand (built specially for the BBC in the '30s) was recently removed from my school (they paid to have it removed, and it was replaced by a hateful Yamaha C3). I phoned the piano movers, who told me it would be 'disposed of' but i subsequently found it on eBay. Does anyone know the whereabouts of this piano? It is fairly recognisable, being quite scratched and having a piece of plywood holding the pedals on (!) but otherwise the best piano i have ever played, leaving Steinways and Bechsteins far behind. If you know where this instrument is, please reply!

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1323

Interesting.

In the '30s, Challens graced many a concert platform, as did Chappells and Webers. I'm sure it's a good piano. Can't be too many around, but its market value is virtually zero.

Good luck tracking it down.

ben_abbots · Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject:

On the contrary, a professional piano restorer gave a 'conservative' estimate of 10,000 pounds!

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1323

fumbler · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject:

Hi,

I'm a little confused. Assuming that you want this piano, why didn't you offer to take it off the school's or the remover's hands? And if it has been on ebay recently why don't you contact the seller/buyer?

Rgds.

ben_abbots · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject:

Firstly, 'PianoGuy' assumes the estimate was given by the school, in fact i sought the estimate myself (i am a student at the school) , by which time the piano had already been removed. This quote was its approximate worth UNRESTORED! I tracked down the C3 suppliers (paid to take it away), who told me it would be 'disposed of'. It subsequently appeared and was sold (for 700 quid) on eBay. Secondly, 'fumbler', i don't know what sort of cavernous mansion you inhabit, but the average schoolboy living at home doesn't have room for a 9ft grand ( especially having already 'rescued' a Kemmler upright!) eBay wouldn't let me contact the seller or buyer without credit card details, which i don't have. I physically don't have room for the instrument, i'm just trying to find out where it has ended up.

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1323

ben_abbots · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject:

So eBay-trawling piano dealers buy pianos for what they're worth, do they?

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1323

Well let's put it this way.

Everybody uses eBay, so bargains are rare, but if a piano worth 10K comes up on the 'Bay, likely as not a few dealers will bid it up to about 8K so they can make a few quid. With the profit on a new Yamaha being so tiny these days, the decent money is in second hand stuff.

That Challen was realistically unsaleable by a retailer. That's why it fetched a derisory sum. Why do you think the dealer who sold the school the C3 was less than glad to have it? Why did they not sell it for 10K?

The "restorer" who told you it was 10K's worth was either giving you an inflated sum for insurance purposes (it does happen) or was pulling your leg. Or of course he could be clueless. Sadly in this trade, many are.

Now get over it.

ben_abbots · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject:

OK, let's clear this up.
The piano merchants who removed it saw an old, beat-up grand.
No-one told them that it was built as one of a very limited series for the BBC in the 1930's to a very high specification because the available microphones were so bad, and is (i believe) possibly the only one remaining. The fact that a piano restorer knew instantly what the "Challen BBC Pianos" were (and immediately valued it on this basis) should tell you how well-known the quality of these instruments is. Any old beat-up '30s grand is, as you say, worthless, but this one isn't. One bargain has slipped through the (inter)net, and I only want to contact the lucky purchaser to find out where the old joanna has ended up. Spread the word throughout the land!

Jerome · Regular Poster Joined: 08 Dec 2005 Posts: 13

Perhaps there is some confusion between musical and commercial
value. The Challen might be a superior instrument to a Bechstein of the same era which would sell for 10k plus but if the name recognition isn't there it will be hard to sell.

Openwood · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject:

OH, IT'S SOOO BIG.......

://www.pianoworld.com/fun/bigpiano.gif

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1323

David B · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:55 am Post subject:

Its too long ago to come up in an eBay search, I'm afraid.

Your only hope is if you know the item no, the seller or the buyer.

ben_abbots · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject:

Luckily, I saved the 'Bay for sale page in my favourites! The item no. was 180115435957, the seller was mlex2005 and the buyer was 123neuschulz. This is the page

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180115435957&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNARL:UK:12

fumbler · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:23 pm Post subject:

That's better. One of us should contact the seller - there's no feedback for the Challen so I don't know if the sale has been finalised.

I don't mind doing it but I shan't be able to do so until Friday evening. I'm intrigued now.

Rgds.

David B · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:28 am Post subject:

Hmm, all is not well, I think. It was "sold" in April, and they "buyer" left the following feedback:

Feedback / Item From Buyer / Price Date/Time
What a weapon! This will be awesome when re-built.. Many thanks bobsclearout ( 110) 25-May-07 08:58
Challen 9ft Concert grand piano. (#180108835465) £711.11 View Item

The re-listed item says that this buyer didn't pay, however.

The second buyer was located in Germany.

ben_abbots · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject:

Thanks, David! Is it possible to contact the buyer directly (email etc)? Luckily I did German GCSE and could probably cobble together a message.

David B · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:18 am Post subject:

Ben,

If you want me to send the buyer a message through eBay, I'm very happy to do so for you, please pm me the text.

Cheers

Byrolinda · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:13 am Post subject:

I think potential bargains do slip through on Ebay from time to time. There is a satinwood art - case Erard which made just £80 at the Conway Hall sale last year, which then reappeared on ebay and made £400. It is now on sale at Besbrode Pianos in Leeds for £10,000

A440 · Persistent Poster Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 108

Bought for 400 and on sale for 10,000!!!!
That's what I call mark-up. (I wonder if he'll throw in a stool?).
Good old Besbrode, thank goodness there's one born every minute.

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1323

But think of the work that'll have gone into it. Spot-welded to another sawn-off Erard, a change of serial number and a respray.

Money well earned if you ask me.

David B · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject:

Methinks you are something of a cynic, my lord Cool

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1323

That I be, that I be......

Sadly, a cynicism based on an intimate knowledge of the industry....... Wink

Byrolinda · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject:

So cynical!!!! I don't suppose anyone in the world will agree with me, but I'd rather spend £10,000 (if I had it to spend) on the Erard than some ghastly Yamaha.

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1323

I think for just this once, you'd be better off finding one for 400 quid on the 'Bay rather than handing 10K over to dubious dealers whether it's a knackered out old Erard or a 'ghastly' Yammie, don't you?

Taking a punt on eBay's not usually a course of action I'd recommend, but over 9 1/2K in change isn't to be sniffed at. Why, you could even get someone decent to restore it and still be quids-in!

fumbler · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject:

Yes, yes, yes, but any news on the Challen?

Openwood · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject:

Ghastly Yamaha? Rolling Eyes

Any piano's capable of sounding ghastly if it hasn't been set-up and maintained properly but if we're talking rotten to the core I don't think the piano police should go knocking on Mr. Yamaha's door anytime soon.

hammer man · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject:

Bet I can guess who valued the Challan at 10k, the same one who rebuilt the same model and tried to sell it at 15k. This trade is too small to hide things for long.

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1323

barless · Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Missing 9ft Challen!

It is alive and well, and living in Wales, pending a full re-build.

If you have any real evidence of a BBC provenance, I would love to see it...as is, the piano has been much abused by the school, and is, I feel, effectively worthless! I like it, though!

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1323

Openwood · Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject:

That's the point, isn't it? If you're the director of music in a school do you keep a battered 9ft Challen that has no value and needs major restoration, or do you replace it with a new Yamaha C3 that will last a couple of lifetimes?

I'd say the music teacher was bang on the money.

ben_abbots · Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:32 pm Post subject: challen again

couple of lifetimes?
though the challen seems at face value 'battered', as it is built (as my dad would say) like a 'brick chickenhouse' it is perfect inside; surely the purpose of the case is to take the knocks?
on the other hand, though i can't really comment on the c3 (as it is only played rarely, being in the school hall) the music department's few-month-old fleet of yamaha b1 uprights are already showing signs of 'batteredness' (keys sticking etc). as a fanatical piano enthusiast, it's my (unofficial) job to keep these pianos playable. i can, however say that it's far easier to repair (or bodge) the school's 40-year old danemanns and broadwoods because their build quality is good enough to work with.
how can you comment on the musical worth of an instrument without having played liszt on it much too fast and much too loud after school on a wet friday afternoon - btw you feel like horowitz- hands reflected in the fallboard, lid up - good times Smile

ben

remember - piano repair - it's where the action is

(p.s. i apologise for my shameful pun)

Openwood · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject:

Alas, it always comes down to money and if your school has bought B1s there probably wasn't a lot of it to go round. Sounds like restoring the Challen was too expensive, hence the new C3. I can fully understand that a C3 must be a disappointment after you've had a 9-footer to enjoy. Shame the Challen was allowed to get into that state in the first place, especially as it had a nice bit of history to it, but such is the lot of many a school piano.

I wouldn't get too exercised by sticking keys on the new B1s - you'd be lucky to get away without any teething problems on new instruments - hopefully the technician will be paying a follow-up visit over half term?

ben_abbots · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject:

believe me, it's not a lack of money (it's a specialist performing arts school) - they bought the b1s and the c3 without playing either. as for a technician visit, not very likely. why pay someone when a helpful 6th - former will fix them up for free?
one of a trichord group of strings on another yamaha grand has been broken for months, but it still hasn't been replaced regardless of how many times i say that it puts stress on the hammer, the repair of which will cost more than a new string
i think part of the grade 8 piano exam should be concerned with how the thing actually works - i know a few grade 8 pianists who don't know what the middle pedal's for!

Gill the Piano · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject:

I know a few Grade 8's who wonder where the piano plugs in...

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1323