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chrissydaboo · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: any ideas???

Hi, I`m trying to decide which piano to buy. I`ve just sold a bechstein grand and now need an upright. Am considering new and second hand up to £5000. I want a technically responsive piano ( more than my 1912 bech) but with a nice warm tone. Am thinking: Kemble conservatoire, Yam U3, Kawai K6 and possibly Schimmel (2nd hand) any ideas guys?
Chris.

Openwood · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject:

Any of the above, basically. I can't see you being disappointed with any of those if they're well prepared and you've tried them out beforehand. Comes down to which one you like best.

chrissydaboo · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:50 pm Post subject:

Yeah I guess so, the trouble is getting them along side each other to try.
Am I missing any options do you think?
Thanks,
Chris

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1276

Kemble K121CLM Mozart

chrissydaboo · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:00 am Post subject:

Unfortunately my wife doesn`t like that one! I know it`s supposed to be good. I`ve also looked at some second hand U3 circa 1980, but found the bass end lacking! Music box in manchester have one they`re replacing the bass strings on, but I don`t feel too much from those Yams I tried. I guess I think I`m homing in on a Conservatoire, but will try and fing the Kawai K6 to test out. The Schimmel I`m looking at is a 13 year old 116cm for 4000 and I think it might be a bit pricey? Also a little heavier action.

Barrie Heaton · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:10 am Post subject:

chrissydaboo · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:01 am Post subject:

Thanks! Zimmerman? are they the bechstein derived pianos? Also what do you think of Vogel? Could you put them in an order of which has the best action ( most like a grand !) ? Kawai has the millenium 3 action I think and Kemble and yams use renner?? I know it`s a personal choice but does anyone have a preference? Is a new piano going to have better action than say a 1900`s Grotion steinweg or whatever they`re called?
This forum is very helpful, thanks!!

abc1337 · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 34

Watching this thread with interest, as my Budget is £5k, and I'm starting the miles trip tomorrow with a visit to Clements in Nottingham to look/try the kawai's...
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sussexpianos · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject:

Horsham ain't the only ones stocking Kawai and Kemble down in the south you know! I stock them and next year I will be getting Wendle & Lung pianos. There isn't many Samick 131WSU out there but I think they are very nice.

Barrie Heaton · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject:

Barrie Heaton · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject:

sussexpianos · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:14 am Post subject:

Thanks Barrie, I wasn't moaning Smile

. I try not to advertise my services via these forums as i think its a bit cheeky Smile

but try and give my advice on my experiance ( only 15 years of it but Im sure it helps).

abc1337 · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 34

I reckon if a dealer is trying to assist a purchaser, then what's wrong with using a furum to do so? Wink

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Barrie Heaton · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:57 am Post subject:

chrissydaboo · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:32 am Post subject:

Thanks guys for the thoughts you`ve suggested! One last question is there a time suited to buying a piano that`ll get you the best deal? Say January when everyone`s broke after buying that seven legged turkey??
All the best,
I`ll report back when I`ve researched a bit more and tried a few!

Barrie Heaton · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject:

chrissydaboo · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject:

ever heard of RAC pianos? they have all 3: kemble, kawai and yam!

pockpock · Regular Poster Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 15

try http://www.stuartjonespianosales.co.uk/

abc1337 · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 34

Well - 1st trials started today:

Tried:
Kawai k3 and K5 – Japan
Yamaha U1 – Japan
Sauter 114 Custom – Germany

Guess which one sounded the nicest?

Guess which one was the most expensive?

To try – Kemble K121, and Yamaha U3...

Clements of Nottm is also a nice shop!
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Barrie Heaton · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject:

abc1337 · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 34

Barrie,
this one was a custom made one for Clements - not art deco at all - and sounded very nice indeed.

It set the bar, so to speak, IMHO and WMLE... Shocked

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chrissydaboo · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject:

hi guys,
I went to look at a kemble conservatoire today at Forsyths, manchester. Was a bit disappointed really. There was a schimmel C 116 in walnut satin that sounded and played much better! It was priced at 5900, do you think that this is a good price for a schimmel? I`ve tried to look at other pianos but find they aren`t doing it for me! More confused than ever, though I think I`ve discounted the Kawai as a contender!!

Barrie Heaton · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject:

the 116 is nice did you look at the Vogel range try a trip up the M6 to omega music they are the main agent for Ed Seiler

Barrie,
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abc1337 · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 34

LOL another make to look at! Shocked

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chrissydaboo · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:21 am Post subject:

Thanks Barrie, I might try that as well. Is 5900 a good price for the 116 Schimmel? I think that would have to be my uppermost price for a piano. I was originally looking to spend a bit less. I don`t know anywhere else locally to stock Schimmels besides Forsyths! Do Seilers come at that budget? the link you gave me suggests not!! Are all kembles so bright ( some might say harsh!) in their bass end tone?

chrissydaboo · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:22 am Post subject:

Also Vogel range seems to be like Hen`s teeth. Any idea where and cost for those?

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1276

Openwood · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:51 am Post subject:

I don't know if this is helpful or just adding to the complications of choosing a new piano but for what it's worth:

I troll around the place accompanying on a number of pianos, all quite new, two of which are Kembles. Most of the others are Yamahas and a few are firewood with a bit of badly applied make-up. PG is absolutely correct in stressing the importance of voicing as it really does make all the difference, whichever make you choose. It's the biggest single thing I've learned since joining this forum.

For my money, I would say that the Kembles do produce a far more mellow tone than the Yams, and I think I'm right in saying that the company see this as part of their mission. BUT I find the Kemble tone is mellow to the point of actually sounding rather muffled. Now I know that I'm in a minority of, well, one on this forum by saying that, but that's my honest impression of the ones I play regularly and also of the ones I've played in the past.

I used to think Yamahas were horrible because all the ones I'd played were very harsh but then I played some which had been properly voiced and I was completely converted. It seems to me that Yamahas provide more scope for tonal adjustment to suite your individual preference whereas Kembles have 'mellow' running through them like a stick of Blackpool rock. It may well be that I've just had bad experiences with Kembles, like I did with those harsh-sounding Yamahas, but there it is.

Anyway, that's enough about trivial matters like the sound. Far more importantly: Why do Kemble stick that nasty cheap-looking badge on the fallboard (no, it's just above the keys, isn't it?). It makes the piano look like it came from a toy shop.

chrissydaboo · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:47 am Post subject:

Ok, well I can probably discount Seiler as being out of my price range then! Vogel definitely sounds interesting. I`ll try and find some and report back. The kembles in Forsyths: Con and Mozart were both quite strident in the Bass and sounded more metallic than the Schimmel. Also compared to the older Schimmel I`d played the action on the new one was excellent and very responsive. Thanks all.

Barrie Heaton · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:53 am Post subject:

chrissydaboo · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject:

great thanks. I`ll look into that!

abc1337 · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 34

Well,

Met John – owner of Lincoln Piano centre – played:
Grotian Steinwegs – 2 diff ones
Pleyels
Yamaha U3 (2nd hand)
Boston - several
Zimmermann Z3 & Z1 (Bechstein manufactured)
Kemble (Mozart, Conservatoire)
Steinway grand (wow!)

Narrowed it down to the Conservatoire and either of the Zimmermann’s – going back on the 12th with Shelley (she stayed home today so I had plenty of time to faff round).

Returned to Clements and again tried the Sauter 114 custom and 116 Vega .

Have now played 4 diff Yamaha’s, and none of them did it for me – I’ll try a new one, but the Conservatoire showed the U3 a clean pair of heels in my view and humble opinion.
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abc1337 · Regular Poster Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 34

Further thoughts:
The Z1 and Z3 Zimmermann's are very clear yet not bright. They had amongst the nicest actions of the piano's I tried. The price is the issue, tho. I'm wrestling with paying either £4k or upto £6.75k. My reasoning is I'll keep what I get for a good long while, so am taking my time. Yamaha U series and kawai's K3 and K5 are not for me...

All of the below had a tone I liked. One of them may well be ruled out due to finish, but all are in the melting pot, so to speak.

My short list now looks something like this (cheapest to most expensive):

Kemble Conservatoire,
Sauter 114 custom,
Zimmermann Z3
Zimmermann Z1
Sauter 116 vega,

I'll keep you updated,

all the best.
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Learning, but really enjoying!

Openwood · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:16 am Post subject:

It's impressive that you're taking such care over choosing your new piano - Idea

if only everyone did that! Idea

I've never played the Sauter 116 vega - has anyone else got experience of them?

chrissydaboo · Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject:

Hi all, I`ve been offered a Feurich piano, about 10 years old.
118 ish tall, or 3ft 8 and a half. for 2995. A colleague of yours Barrie, I think down in Wolverhampton.
Any thoughts on this as to whether it`s worth a trip when I go to Wales to look at Vogel at Stuart Jones?

Barrie Heaton · Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject:

chrissydaboo · Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject:

Yes I think his name`s Paul! That`s helpful thanks!!