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Jennifer · Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:46 am Post subject: Sames Upright

I have just "inherited" a Sames upright piano (serial no 21131) that belonged to my partner's grandmother (and the family thinks possibly her mother before her). The only info I have so far found says this piano was built after 1925. The piano seller in Australia was W.H. Paling & Co.
Can you give me any information about Sames? Can you suggest where I might find out more about this particular piano?

Jennifer
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Jennifer Edmonds
Sydney, Australia
jemr@bigpond.net.au

Bill Kibby · Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:29 am Post subject: Sames

'The Music Sellers' by Peter Game, Melbourne, Hawthorne Press, 1976, is a history of Allans' company, who bought out Palings, and are now one of the major music publishers and instrument retailers in Australia. There is a copy of the book in the Australian State Library but it is out of print now. Allans did not manufacture pianos, but the book may offer some useful information about those who did. Other than that, I have no access to australian archives. No serial number dates are published.
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I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue antique pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

jcooke · Member Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Posts: 4 Location: UK

Jennifer,
I know your posting is a little old but I can shed a little light on your Sames piano since I am a direct descendent of the maker William Sames.

Your piano was made in Birmingham England! I have no idea how it ended up in Australia. It can't have been built much after 1925 because the factory sadly burnt down just after this. I'm actually trying to find the exact date that this happened at the moment.

I hope you enjoy your Sames piano, I haven't been fortunate enough to see one myself as yet.

Regards!
Jo
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jo6284

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: Sames

Thats's not necessarily true, it may have been made under license.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue antique pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

honorpacey · New Member Joined: 17 Feb 2006 Posts: 1

WE HAVE RECENTLY AQUIRED A WILLAM SAMES PIANO - SERIAL NUMBER 14128.

THE HISTORY IS THAT IT BELONGED TO AN ELDERLY COUPLE WHO CAN REMEMBER IT BEING IN THE FAMILY WHEN THE WIFE WAS A BABY.

I HAVE TRIED TO OBTAIN INFO ON IT BUT CAN ONLY FIND THAT IT WAS MADE IN BIRMINGHAM (NOT FAR FROM US AS WE ARE IN NORTHAMPTON) AND THAT IS WAS MADE AFTER 1925 (SO A WEBSITE INFORMED ME ON THE INFORMATION OF THE SERIAL NUMBER) AND THATS IT.

IF IT IS OF INTEREST TO YOU AND YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT VIEWING ONE YOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME TO COME AND SEE OURS.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: Sames

Which website was that? No dates of numbers are published for Sames. A growing number of websites offer apparently simple dating of pianos by numbers. These dates are usually based on books, which in turn quote from other books which are often wrong or misleading. See
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/piano-serial-numbers.html
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue antique pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

csames · New Member Joined: 08 Jan 2007 Posts: 1

Hi there, I too have a Sames piano, well there's at least three I know of in my immediate family. My surname is Sames and I believe William Sames was a relative of my grandfather - Benjamin Sames. The piano that's in Australia may relate to Ben's sister Emily, who lived there. I'm not sure what aunty Em's marital name was however. I can probably find out more if you like...

Bill Kibby · Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: Sames

I am always interested to keep in touch with the descendants of piano makers, one never knows what useful snippets of information we can offer each other. Do please email me.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue antique pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

jcooke · Member Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Posts: 4 Location: UK

Hi! I guess we could be distant relatives then. My great grandfather was William Sames. It would be great if you could fill in some of the blanks by letting me know Benjamin's relation to William. Also details of Emily in Australia. I've had no luck in finding out when exactly the piano factory burnt down, it seems strange that you have 3 Sames' in the family and yet none have survived through ours.
Regards
Jo
_________________
jo6284

Dolly · Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:19 am Post subject:

Hello, I just googled my piano and found this forum! I bought a beautiful old piano from a junk shop 5 years ago here in Auckland for NZ$100. At the time I thought it would be a nice plink plonk for the children. It was pretty riddled with wood worm but the name William Sames Ltd, Upright Grand and some other distinguishable marks are indented on the lid that lifts up. It also has two candle holders on it.
I did an internet search on the serial number and found that it was made in Birmingham in 1912. The website was really interesting and named the employees that went to the first world war. I cannot remember which web site gave this info or which search engine I used. I adore my piano though especially as I also came from the Midlands and my dear old nanna was born around there in 1912.

jcooke · Member Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Posts: 4 Location: UK

Hi dolly, lovely to hear from you. I do find all this fascinating, my gran (who is still alive) was born in 1912, it is her father who owned the Faculty. The factory was definitely making the painos at this time. It would be great to find that website I'll have to have a look later. I did find one website where you put the serial number in and it gives a date of making but it seems to me that every piano was made in the same year so I think it's a guesstimate and not a real date. I love the fact that you're enjoying the piano still after all these decades, it's nice to know that some things in life last a long time!
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jo6284

TaterPie · Member Joined: 24 Jan 2008 Posts: 4

Dear Moderator and Members..

The more I read, the more confused I get. I've been told that Sames did not serialize their pianos and yet some of you are giving out serial numbers!! Question

I can't find one inside the lid (top or keyboard). Did find a keyhole but am assuming this was common! Wish I had the original key...

Mine also has "sconces" (thank you, Bill) and is labelled "upright iron grand". The gold tole roses and trim are beautiful. So far, I guess I can put it at between 1855 and 1925. Has anyone come up with an exact date the factory burned?

I believe it is Rosewood. It is very dark but gleams reddish in the light. Does this seem likely?

I am trying to gather as much information as possible since I will be moving into a Senior highrise efficiency apartment sometime this year and will not be able to take it with me. I do not have family to leave it with and certainly do not want it to end up in a rubbish heap. Want to find someone with a love for old and beautiful things who can afford to refurbish it. Any new information would be greatly appreciated.
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A cleaar conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory...

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: Sames

As I said before...

Which website was that? No dates of numbers are published for Sames. A growing number of websites offer apparently simple dating of pianos by numbers. These dates are usually based on books, which in turn quote from other books which are often wrong or misleading. Have a look at the Numbers page at www.PianoGen.org

Sames was not listed among these books, that doesn't mean there weren't serial numbers, or that they were "not serialized", simply that their dates are not published, so I am as confused as you! Lock-keys for pianos normally fall into one of few types, and your tuner should be able to obtain one that will do the job. How all this helps you is not clear to me, it won't tell anyone what condition your piano is in, or what it is worth. It wouldn't be old enough to interest me. A 1913 article from The Times describes a factory fire, which doesn't seem to have been their most devastating one. That was in 1921.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue antique pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

TaterPie · Member Joined: 24 Jan 2008 Posts: 4

It was this very site that gave out some serial numbers - and some posts from people who were related to Sames. See Jennifer who posted Wed Jul 14 2004 with Serial #21131 and Honorpacey who posted Fri. Feb 17 2006 with Serial #14128 Rolling Eyes

Oh, well! I think I have enough info to offer it on Ebay to someone with a love of old pianos and interest enough to restore it! It is a beauty. Thanks...

I will check out the "numbers" page you mentioned to see if the above serial numbers were just that.....
_________________
A cleaar conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory...

Bill Kibby · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: Sames

This is not my site, and I do not read the hundreds of pages here, so I wouldn't know, I just deal with history enquiries on the forum.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue antique pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

TaterPie · Member Joined: 24 Jan 2008 Posts: 4

Bill (& forum members who are William Sames ancestors)

Can you shed any light on what woods were most prominently used by William Sames? Question

In the darkness of my dining room - which has no windows and poor light, the wood looks dark, like mahoghany. However, when lighted, it is very reddish, like Rosewood might be.

Any educated guess on the type of woods used mostly in the Sames era?

Wish I could show you a photo! The scounces and the gold tole work are absolutely beautiful.
Razz

Lea
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A cleaar conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory...

Bill Kibby · Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: Wood

I have to say that in spite of all my years of involvement with pianos, I am absolutely hopeless at recognising all but the most obvious types of wood, and I wish I could find some sort of comparison chart for wood grains. Any ideas anyone?
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue antique pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

AnnaT · Member Joined: 21 Apr 2008 Posts: 2

hello,
i am buying a rather battered Sames 'upright iron grand' from a friend of mine, and i would like to replace the missing 'sconces'. Perhaps this is too difficult to do, but if at possible, i would be most grateful if some of the members who have Sames upright pianos with sconces would be willing to describe what their sconces look like - eg. are they gold-coloured brass or silver-coloured brass? are they plain or ornate? are they curvy or angular? do they fold away or are they rigid? This would really help me to treat the poor old piano to a set of sconces that are close to the ones it would have had originally. Or perhaps there are photographs of Sames sconces on the internet (i haven't managed to find any) or in a book?
many thanks and best wishes,
anna.