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DianeF · Member Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

Hi. I have a John Broadwood and Sons upright piano. The serial number is 82521. Its height is 51", depth 14" and length across top 55.5".
It has 50 Keys. On the first key on the left hand side, the name T. Smith is signed, and the names J. Campbell and W A Smith are stamped into the wood of that key. Also pencil marks on the wood reading WB and JC. From this information, would it be possible for you to tell me the date when this piano was made? I have looked everywhere on it and inside it and cannot find it anywhere. I am also interested in how much it might be worth. I know this would require an on-site inspection, but I am not at all bothered about accuracy. It would just be nice to know a region of i.e. under 50 pounds or more or under 1000 pounds or more. I have absolutely no idea but would like to know as it is in good condition but doesn't get much use, is it worth not burning? Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Diane.

TonyG · Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:45 am Post subject:

What an intriguing instrument. I'm looking forward to the experts reply here myself. A 4 and a half octave Broadwood upright. Would it have been made for Church and Chapel use?

I can say with authority however that a Broadwood is not firewood! It may not necessarily be worth anything. But someone would really treasure it.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: Broadwood

The number suggests about 1892, but is the top key marked with a date? Value is between 3 pounds and 3,000 depending on inspection by a tuner. The term "good condition" is meaningless without torque tests etc.. By "fifty keys" do you mean altogether, or just the white ones?
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

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Historical Information about British Pianos.

DianeF · Member Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

Yes it has 50 white keys. Thankyou for your help.
In relation to the previous members question, yes i think it was made for a church because we were given it by a church.
Thanks.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: Broadwood

So we are talking about a normal Broadwood 85-note piano with the normal 2 pedals, from about 1892. Most dealers over here will not touch anything that old, and museum won't take anything that "modern". Have you checked the righthand side of the top key for a date?
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

TonyG · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject:

Hello Diane,

I was assuming it was for a Church on the basis of it only being 4 and a half octaves. Thus just being used maybe as an alternative to a harmonium etc. In actual fact it is of a full octave range for that era and make. So I don't believe it was built for Church use specifically. However, being in a Church for years is better than being in a Club or Scout Hall etc. so it should not have been abused too much one would imagine. Broadwood is a name that will always raise an eyebrow though.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: Church pianos

You obviously haven't been to the same churches that I have! Churches tend to be the dumping ground for pianos that nobody wants, and they are often bequeathed less-than-average or older-than-average pianos, which is embarassing if they don't want them.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

Tom Tuner · Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject:

I used to referr to churches as "the elephant's graveyard for pianos," it's where old pianos go to die. "Let's get rid of this old klunker. We can give it to the church!"

Tom Tuner

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1275

Bill Kibby · Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: Broadwood

That's a bit like saying Ford cars are no good. Why did so many people buy them then? And why are there still so many out there? And why do the 140-year-old ones still work so well? Call them common if you like, but one cannot dispute their commercial success. You'd think someone who calls himself "PianoGuy" would love pianos, but he seems to hate them all!
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

pianobrereton · Member Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 8 Location: london

Well said ! Since I've started to view this Forum I've noticed a lot of cynicism particularly about Broadwoods. Why? They were the premier maker for many years and were great innovators. I have a broadwood upright on my rounds which has a full iron frame and a beautiful casework and still tunes to pitch and it was made in about 1840 . How many modern pianos will last as long as Broadwoods do ?
As we are the home country of Broadwoods there are still many around still being played a testament to there sturdy construction but we must remember that the older ones are not going to sound as they did in there prime. Any one who has heard mervyn Tang play the restored Broadwood grand of Beethoven ( and later Liszt ) would never talk about burning them , only marvel at the beautiful sound they make. They were the Steinways of the 19th century.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: Broadwood

It sounds like you are agreeing me, Broadwoods, in common with Wornum, Erard, Debain and many others, did not easily take on the technical advances like overstringing and iron frames, and their designs were behind the times, but as you say, how many pianos of that age would still work at all? I have just inspected an 1861 Erard that still works on every note, in spite of a thick coating of dirt. We have a D'Almaine from the 1840s in our Piano History Centre that plays well enough for its age, sounds warm and powerful, and will respond when it has had more tuning. That won't get done until we have got our displays looking better! I have to add that although Broadwoods tried some innovative case designs, they are not always the prettiest, and they seemed to go backwards aesthetically in the early 1900s.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

John Knees · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject:

I have a Broadwood upright, a glorious but ageing beast, which sadly I cannot do justice to, having taken up the piano very late in life, and having been born with a pound of pork sausages on each hand.

At the moment I'm dithering between spending about £ 1,500 on having it renovated or buying a Clavinova - at the risk of mutiny by my musician sons.

Reason for posting, when trying to find out something about my piano, (serial 128051) I learned that Broadwoods provide a "history of your piano" service. No doubt some of the expert contributors have a view on it - I haven't tried it yet, but you'll find it at;

http://www.uk-piano.org/broadwood/serial_numbers.html

All the best,

John

Bill Kibby · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: Broadwood

The link you gave is on THIS site, so we are abviously aware of it!
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

John Knees · Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject:

Actually my reply was addressed to the original lady enquirer, as none of the expert contributors on this page had thought to offer her the information in this thread.

I apologise for intruding.

John.

Bill Kibby · Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: Broadwood

It's not an intrusion at all, but with search engines, we just assume that anyone seeking Broadwood information should already have discovered that Broadwoods will do a search for a fee. Unfortunately, people have come to expect information on the net for nothing, no matter how unique the resource. The original enquiry was simply about the date of a number, I gave that information.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.

ok0510 · New Member Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 1

Well said ! Since I've started to view this Forum I've noticed a lot of cynicism particularly about Broadwoods. Why? They were the premier maker for many years and were great innovators. I have a broadwood upright on my rounds which has a full iron frame and a beautiful casework and still tunes to pitch and it was made in about 1840 . How many modern pianos will last as long as Broadwoods do ?
As we are the home country of Broadwoods there are still many around still being played a testament to there sturdy construction but we must remember that the older ones are not going to sound as they did in there prime. Any one who has heard mervyn Tang play the restored Broadwood grand of Beethoven ( and later Liszt ) would never talk about burning them , only marvel at the beautiful sound they make. They were the Steinways of the 19th century. Wink

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PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1275

pianobrereton · Member Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 8 Location: london

oko510 seems to have reprinted my earlier post ? Odd !
The point i was trying to make was that Broadwood were great inovators but the pianos that were made in there prime are now very old and will not sound as good as they did , so its not right to compare them with a modern example. The screwed in wrest pins you mention has now been revised by Stuart Pianos of Australia and there metal bridge studs were used by Hurstwood Fm Pianos in the developement of there Phoenix system now used under licence by Steingraeber .So the ideas weren't that bad . You were right about the spelling it is indeed Melvin Tan playing Beethoven Broadwood and i do beleive you can call it "a beautiful sound " . I also have a recording of Andras schiff playing the same piano before it was restored and it doesn't sound as good . After restoration we can hear more of what it would have been like when 1st made and understand why Broadwoods were so revered in there day. I know what you mean about tuning old pianos with a dead tone ,it can be soul distroying . We should convince the customers to have them restored too.

PianoGuy · Persistent Poster Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 1275

Horses · Member Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 8 Location: wa

well we have many very old Broadwood pianos and couldnt find a better piano of that era. We own an 1843 John Broadwood grand and it is one of the nicest pianos we own. We have over 20 pre-1900 pianos and apart from our Grotrian-Steinweg, it would have to be the best in our collection. and considering John Broadwood taught Stienwey the art of piano making, we think they should be of fairly equal quailty??

Bill Kibby · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: Broadwood

I don't know where you heard that one! Steinweg was German, and learned in Germany, then went to America, where his name was anglicised. Grotrian Steinweg also made excellent instruments.
_________________
I do not buy, sell or value pianos, but I sometimes rescue pre-1890 pianos in the UK.

My own website: http://www.pianogen.org

Piano History Centre

The World's Largest Collection of
Historical Information about British Pianos.